Curse

cellardweller · Aug 24, 2007, 02:59 AM // 02:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaoticCoyote

So who, exactly, is going to look at this monument to your achievements? Are you going to sell tickets, or drag your friends in to show them how uber your characters were?

I doubt I'll ever take anyone into my hall of monuments; I can't imagine being that narcissistic.

The most important person will see the HoM - me.

Antheus · Aug 24, 2007, 03:00 AM // 03:00

Quote:

Cool, I like the storytelling here. But again, do you feel you should be able to make ONE character who is explorer, drunk, diabetic, fortune-seeker, and fighter? I mean, in a real inheritance, no one gets all that each ancestor did and had. No one has the red hair of the grandmother and the raven waves of the great uncle, right?

I'm not making fun, guys, and I'm not denigrating your ideas. I just need to understand what you're really saying.

We don't know how GW2 will work.

All we know is that something will be inherited. There's currently 4 (ok, not really) million GW players, and exactly 0 GW2 players.

Wouldn't it be kinda more fitting to give in a bit to GW players, and change how GW2 works, rather than add unrealistic demands to current game?

We also don't have the numbers to the number of titles/character, characters/account, so perhaps it does make sense. But originally, with extra slots, gradual additions of new features, the achievements that fit into HoM were spread among the characters, since nobody knew that such strict requirements would be put.

But, GW did always promote having many characters, restarting them, playing them. Unlike other games where it was known up-front that one character is the one you'll be leveling up, in GW, through these inheritance requirements, players will frequently be forced to simply level up a character they no longer want to play, simply because it has the most achievements.

Personally, I'm stuck with monk - it simply doesn't make any more sense to play any of the others, since this is the only one that has reasonable bonus-granting titles. All others have slowly become storage characters, since gaining achievements on them means losing progress on main character.

GW's original premise was exactly the possibility of having many characters, neither of which is handicapped by lack of time spent leveling them. Something even more enforced through skill unlocks, tomes and character slot sales.

Yet HoM goes directly against that.

How does GW2 inheritance work? I don't know. But I'm sure that a solution could be made. Perhaps by choosing only one or two perks from HoM to inherit per each character made in GW2.

Loviatar · Aug 24, 2007, 03:05 AM // 03:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onarik Amrak

You're weird. First you pick at my post asking what's the big deal, and then you come up with a pretty good solution.

.

my idea allows any of your GW1 characters to enjoy the mini pets while not allowing sale/trade/multiple GW2 characters to inherit.

i think that is a fair compromise otherwise everyone creatimg a GW2 character would have a full zoo of exotic prestige minis.

not sellable but still prestige items flooding in making them common rather than rare

GAILE GRAY

what do you think of the petkeeper (festival hat maker for pets) option for HOM customized minipets?

AlienFromBeyond · Aug 24, 2007, 03:06 AM // 03:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by TideSwayer

So is can we finally get a Survivor-ineligible consolation title for those characters who missed out? PLEASE?

Same requirements as Survivor, only it can happen on any particular life, not just the first one. And characters with Survivor maxed out (ie. Legendary) aren't eligible.

You'd have to make it so LDoA can't get it either, or you still have an imbalance. But yeah, this is probably the worst part, especially with a character-specific HoM. Way to screw over old and established characters

.

Frostnova · Aug 24, 2007, 03:09 AM // 03:09

well i think what people are saying is that wouldn't it be more awe inspiring (even to yourself) to see ALL your achievements from GW --- titles for each char, armor, weapons etc. in one place rather than having to switch chars just to see what you achieved by opening the hero window and pressing F9.

As for the inheritence thing, i agree with everyone else that we should only be able to get it once since in real life, say you have 3 siblings, an earlier family member can't give the same thing to all 3 children when they only have one of said item.

Achilles Antony · Aug 24, 2007, 03:09 AM // 03:09

Honestly, I would like to go to my Hall of Monuments, on any character, and see everything I have accomplished on every single character. Even if it was implemented in such a way as to say "character x accomplished Legendary Defender of Ascalon, character y accomplished Legendary Survivor, character z accomplished Legendary Vanquisher" I want to see that, with every single character. I accomplished that, and I want to be able to see that with any character. People want to be able to see their mini's with every character and this I understand as well.

I'm not sure when the discussion changed to accomplishments being passed on to other characters in GW2... honestly at this point I don't care about that. I care about Guild Wars and this is what I was hoping we'd get from the Hall of Monuments. How these accomplishments are passed on in the future is up to the developers of GW2, and I'm sure it will be done fairly. I'm concerned about the present at the moment, not the future.

Gaile Gray · Aug 24, 2007, 03:12 AM // 03:12

How are you "throwing away" a title simply because you cannot multiply it by the number of characters you have?

Let's speculate that it works like this:
You got X.
You can give X to one character, the "descendent" of the character that got X in the first place.

Instead, some seem to say:
I got X.
I want every character I make in the future to have whatever reward X brings in GW2.
I only earned it once, but the Hall of Monuments should be a copier of credentials, giving me what I earned on one char to multiple chars.

I know not all of you are saying this. But I fear that some are, and it just doesn't make sense to me.

Hyper Cutter · Aug 24, 2007, 03:12 AM // 03:12

I'm still wondering how that one guy had a HoM with armor from multiple professions...

Clone · Aug 24, 2007, 03:13 AM // 03:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

I was just writing this, so I'll go ahead and add my comments, although I think hallomik said the same thing more clearly:

I'm confused. I think that some of you are suggesting that everything you acquire, on any character, should apply to all characters in Guild Wars 2. Is that right?

If so, why?

I have all my minis in storage. Any character can use them at any time they want. They just go to their chest and pull one out. Certainly some things, armor, would be on a per character base. But I think a fair amount of the backlash I've been reading here has been your choice to customize things that all characters could use.

Quote:

Would you suggest that if a player has five chars, and each has explored 20% of Tyria, then every char in GW2 should have an explorer title, because after all, 20% x 5 = 100%?

Gaile, please read this, and try to prevent yourself from doing it again:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

No one has asked for that! Its absurd, and you are trying to misrepresent our position as such. We know a bunch of incomplete won't add up to a complete, and that ISN'T what we're asking. I think the some of the issue is that linking accomplishments to characters isn't clear, because GW1 characters aren't GW2 characters. A player (using a GW1 character) made a GW1 accomplishment. The GW2 character had no role in that accomplishment.

Think of it this way. Someone can claim to be a descendant of Abe Lincoln. That doesn't invalidate someone else's claim to be a descendant of Abe Lincoln. Our GW2 characters aren't our GW1 characters. They are the descendants of our GW1 characters. Physical items that can't be replicated (armor, weapons, a signed copy of the Gettysburg Address) will be passed on in inheritance to one descendant. But all can lay claim to what the previous generation (in this case the GW1 player, not individual characters) has done.

Leslie · Aug 24, 2007, 03:13 AM // 03:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frostnova

well i think what people are saying is that wouldn't it be more awe inspiring (even to yourself) to see ALL your achievements from GW --- titles for each char, armor, weapons etc. in one place rather than having to switch chars just to see what you achieved by opening the hero window and pressing F9.

As for the inheritence thing, i agree with everyone else that we should only be able to get it once since in real life, say you have 3 siblings, an earlier family member can't give the same thing to all 3 children when they only have one of said item.

Agreed. The point, Gaile, is not that people want to benefit from a title obtained on one character for all or other characters not directly inherited from said character in GW2, it's that a Hall of Monuments is meant to be a dedication to the past 2 years of Guild Wars. Simply put, rather than multiple, half-empty (or half-full if you prefer) HoM's, most of your community would rather see one Hall of Monuments, displaying all achievements across all characters.

Gli · Aug 24, 2007, 03:13 AM // 03:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

I know not all of you are saying this. But I fear that some are, and it just doesn't make sense to me.

Well, maybe you could address the people who aren't saying this as well then? Like Achilles Antony's post above yours? (Who's echoing my own sentiments.)

Onarik Amrak · Aug 24, 2007, 03:15 AM // 03:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

my idea allows any of your GW1 characters to enjoy the mini pets while not allowing sale/trade/multiple GW2 characters to inherit.

i think that is a fair compromise otherwise everyone creatimg a GW2 character would have a full zoo of exotic prestige minis.

not sellable but still prestige items flooding in making them common rather than rare

GAILE GRAY

what do you think of the petkeeper (festival hat maker for pets) option for HOM customized minipets?

It is a fair compromise. That's all I really want.

The titles thing does make me disappointed though...

I thought of a little weird thing that's sort of lore based.
Just say, you want to combine the titles earned on 2 chars. Lets just assume they're male and female.

So they have kids, they inherit the titles from both parents...
Lets just say, I don't wanna know what happens when GW3 rolls out...

On a serious note though, that empty monument where my Warrior's Legendary Survivor could've gone if I ever had a chance to earn it will haunt me...

Winterclaw · Aug 24, 2007, 03:15 AM // 03:15

Gaile, why can't one GW2 PC have multiple GW1 PC ancestors? Why can't one GW1 PC have multiple GW2 decendants? Did you only have one great-great grandfather? Did he only have one great-great grandchild?

Anyways, I don't like what I'm hearing about HoM thing.

BTW, what if you delete a GW2 decendant who was linked to a GW1 char? Do any new ones you make become unable to gain benefits from that GW1 char?

Neo Nugget · Aug 24, 2007, 03:15 AM // 03:15

Well gaile, i think what most people seem to be bothered by is the minipet thing. 1 per character is kinda restrictive.Don't you agree on that at least?

This is kinda why i liked to work on account titles. I dont like working on 1 title on 1 character only for it to be displayed on him alone. I like being able to look at all of the things i do, not just what i did on a particular character.

sykoone · Aug 24, 2007, 03:17 AM // 03:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Let's speculate that it works like this:
You got X.
You can give X to one character, the "descendent" of the character that got X in the first place.

Instead, some seem to say:
I got X.
I want every character I make in the future to have whatever reward X brings in GW2.
I only earned it once, but the Hall of Monuments should be a copier of credentials, giving me what I earned on one char to multiple chars.

I know not all of you are saying this. But I fear that some are, and it just doesn't make sense to me.

No one's saying we want every character in GW2 to have X. What some are saying that if current toon A earns X, and current toon B earns Y, we want future character C to be able to have X and Y. But not necessarily future toons D E and F.

It's not that we want to multiply the titles. More like condense them into one monument, one inheritance.

Gli · Aug 24, 2007, 03:19 AM // 03:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

Gaile, why can't one GW2 PC have multiple GW1 PC ancestors? Why can't one GW1 PC have multiple GW2 decendants? Did you only have one great-great grandfather? Did he only have one great-great grandchild?

Good point. Speaking for myself, as a scion of a certifiably non-inbred family, I happen to have 8 unique and distinct great-grandparents.

ChaoticCoyote · Aug 24, 2007, 03:19 AM // 03:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

How are you "throwing away" a title simply because you cannot multiply it by the number of characters you have?

Let's speculate that it works like this:
You got X.
You can give X to one character, the "descendent" of the character that got X in the first place.

Instead, some seem to say:
I got X.
I want every character I make in the future to have whatever reward X brings in GW2.
I only earned it once, but the Hall of Monuments should be a copier of credentials, giving me what I earned on one char to multiple chars.

I know not all of you are saying this. But I fear that some are, and it just doesn't make sense to me.

Here's the problem:

ANet designed the HoM as a way of bequeathing an inheritence.

Most people who are upset want the HoM to be a big shiny e-peen. Where they can worship themselves, apparently.

No matter how much they pay you, Gaile, to deal with this stuff -- it ain't enough.

Solar_Takfar · Aug 24, 2007, 03:23 AM // 03:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

It would be impossible to be "in the know" of absolutely everything, silly.

But did you miss the part where I was relaying information received, as I wrote it, directly from James Phinney, the Lead Designer? I know that a few people feel obliged to take their digs, but let's not go there every single thread, k?

Maybe I didn't express myself correctly; I didn't expect you to be in the know of everything. I guess I was just hopeful that what you were saying was a mistake due to miscommunication, not the hard truth.

Now I'm just sad. sorry.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gaily

Let's speculate that it works like this:
You got X.
You can give X to one character, the "descendent" of the character that got X in the first place.

Instead, some seem to say:
I got X.
I want every character I make in the future to have whatever reward X brings in GW2.
I only earned it once, but the Hall of Monuments should be a copier of credentials, giving me what I earned on one char to multiple chars.

Making the HoM char-based is not a good solution for that problem, IMO. Why not just make it account-based and make it so that it counts how many times a certain title has been achieved, and then make it so this title can be passed on this many times? ie. I have reached protector rank with each of my 10 characters on each of their respective birth continents. So Solar Takfar's HoM (assuming it's account-based, as pretty much all of the community seems to think it should be) Has 10 protector "heritages", which I can distribute to 10 gw2 chars. If I get another protector title meanwhile, it is added to the pool. If I "inherit" it with a gw2 char, it gets subtracted. If I decide to delete that gw2char for whatever reason, it's added again. Can it be any simpler?

The problem is that you (gaile) seem to be focusing your answers here on the issues surrounding heritage into GW2, while most of us seem to be concerned about practicality and simplicity while we're still here in GW. A single hall per account is the most natural solution, it'd look better and make more sense logistically.

arcanemacabre · Aug 24, 2007, 03:23 AM // 03:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clone

I have all my minis in storage. Any character can use them at any time they want. They just go to their chest and pull one out. Certainly some things, armor, would be on a per character base. But I think a fair amount of the backlash I've been reading here has been your choice to customize things that all characters could use.

Exactly, it's unnecessary. The titles have all been per character (except for the account-wide titles that seem to defy your logic on this, Gaile), so I'm not surprised their representation in the HoM is also character-based. Fine. The minipets thing is entirely unwarranted, though. If they must be customized, customize per account. There's simply no reason why you are able to switch them between characters (unlike customized gear, armors, and titles), then suddenly, you can't. Where's the amazing logic in that?

Please address this, Gaile.

Series · Aug 24, 2007, 03:23 AM // 03:23

Gaile, you are 100% right. It should be character based. This is a hall to show the accomplishments of your CHARACTER. People who have no idea at all how this will effect GW2 are trying to say it is a bad system... so instead of having one hall with 4 titles, you will have 4 halls with 1 title each. Is there any difference at all? How do you know that in GW2 it wont let you merge all your monuments to a single guy, or better yet, why does it matter? Your necro explored tyria, your assassin explored cantha. Therefore, it is recorded in the HoM that your necro explored tyria and your assassin explored cantha. Makes a LOT of sense to me.

Mini pets customized? I don't think this is too bad, however, a "Mini-Pet NPC" sort of like the Festival Hat one would be GREAT so that you don't have to fear getting your mini trapped on a character you stop liking... or just make them account based, but customized for the character you made it on... any character on the account can use it, but only the one who customized can count it for the HoM.